For humanity to evolve, religion must be discarded


#603

Thank you for informing me. Did I claim it was anything other than my opinion? It is my educated opinion, supported by historical evidence.

You sure do like to assume a lot. Please point out where I stated “God” was a “religion”. It is necessary to have “God” to believe in a religion, but I don’t think it’s necessary to believe in a religion to think there might be a God.

You are entitled to your belief.


#604

Sorry its lengthy…just a different perspective you could say.


#605

This doesn’t refer to Christianity in particular. This refers to all religions. And the end result is the same. Regardless of how fundamental Christianity was to the founding of the nation, the forefathers did not see fit to establish it as a state religion, rightly regarding it as a belief system equal to all other belief systems under the law. Had they regarded Christianity as ultimate truth, there would be no reason to separate it from government. This is in contrast to theocracies that presume their religion to be the truth. There is no separation, because the prevailing belief system is regarded as truth, and thus superior to all others.


#606

…A different perceptive of the same. Consider by Religion, I am referring to ALL.

“Sin can not be cured by sin, Evil can not diminish evil, rather these work to embolden them”


#607

The fact is, we were established by Christian immigrants. When people began pouring into the country, the only governing body was the church… The leaders saw the people infiltrating the church with secular motives… They then began the process of trying to protect the church by separating the church and governing body. Equality was still the important factor. Fast forward to the revolution and you see that a government was created based on Christian values but ultimately separate from the church for protection of the church body, not vice versa. Fast forward to modern times and you see a whole lot of corruption that twisted and extripated the original values to fit what the secular society wants and not what it needs… But again that is the beauty of choice and “free will” or maybe the vulgarity of it… Depends on perspective… EVERYONE has a choice on what to believe and there sure are a lot of options now… :thinking:


#608

Yes, absolutely correct, also the schooling, now as delicate as social trends and pressures.


#609

Like politics, how much, to what degree, can religion be discarded?


#610

…A different perceptive of the same. Consider by Religion, I am referring to ALL.

“Sin can not be cured by sin, Evil can not diminish evil, rather these work to embolden them”

PS: sorry for re-post, will delete the one above when able :slight_smile:


#611

Yes, but once again, the end result is the same. The church cannot control government either. That is the meaning of secularism.

secular spirit or tendency, especially a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship.

the view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religiouselement.

What you claim is part of the truth, but not the whole truth. The founding fathers were also well aware of the oppression and tyranny that resulted from church-state linked governments in Europe. During colonial times, it is a historical fact that religion and government created much misery and hardship. You’ve heard of the Salem witchcraft trials of course. This is just one example of religious persecution at the hands of government. The Glorious Revolution, or the persecution of Catholics by protestants and revolts against this persecution were the precursor to the American Revolution. Those who disagreed with the Puritan faith were called nonconformists or dissenters and harshly punished by beating, whipping and imprisonment. The list goes on.


#612

absolutely, however…


#613

Does religion derive from politics through anthropology?


#614

The best way to logically look at any of this is to study all aspects of human history… ALL… religious, secular, pagan, etc. Then follow the lines drawn… On both sides there is a worship of power no matter how you want to describe it… Each side believes their own beliefs are right or truth and to an extent it is correct. There are two sides and both are truth. But the key is in the description. What I see is bad, you may deem good and vice versa… Ultimately though it comes down to the Creator. I have studied all history and both sides of the story… And when I humbly asked my Creator for truth… It was given… :pensive: And thus the reason for my hope and confidence in what I know to be truth …


#615

Yes I can agree with that… :+1:


#616

And that is the purpose of my post. It shouldn’t be a battle of whose belief systems are “right”. That’s been the source of death and destruction throughout history. We have to live with the reality that we may not know, that we may not possess the capacity to know. And that’s ok. We can live in peace with uncertainty. It is enough to think God might exist, without attaching oneself to a fixed belief system, which immediately puts one at odds with competing belief systems. I suggest doing away with the tendency to attach oneself to a belief system altogether, and discover that there is real peace in that, not the fake peace that comes with the delusion of belief systems.


#617

Consider also.


#618

I agree… I honestly don’t care to battle anyone… I’ll give my reason for my belief and what I know to be truth if the topic arises. I do my best not to insult others but unfortunately it happens sometimes.

I understand why you might think this is the best way but this is where I disagree… And you cannot claim that anyone’s peace they feel is fake because you do not know the peace they feel… And just realize you have your own opinion and do your best not to insult others with it…

I think ultimately it’s the words we use that misconstrue things… Key words like “I believe this to be true even if you don’t” or “these are my beliefs and I respect you may not share them” are of the utmost importance when discussing these topics. The dissension comes when we use forceful language in presenting our beliefs and then others take offense and fight back…


#619

This is the fundamental contradiction.

Thanks, but I did not address anyone personally. If you take personal offense, that’s your problem. I state my position in the language I see fit. You are entitled to your opinion about my language, as anything else.

I am not calling anyone’s personal feeling of peace fake. The feeling may be real, but what it is based on is an illusion. Much like the feeling an opiate might give you is real, but is based on a drug. Religion functions in much the same way.


#620

“Religion is not the hero of the day, but the zero. In any exposition of the products of brains, the Sunday-School takes the booby prize. . . . Man has asked for truth and the Church has given him miracles. He has asked for knowledge, and the Church has given him theology. He has asked for facts, and the Church has given him the Bible. This foolishness should stop. The Church has nothing to give man that has not been in cold storage for two thousand years. Anything would become stale in that time.” Marilla M. Ricker


#621

Absolutely! I personally have to agree to that!


#622