Israel, the Jews, "God's Chosen People"? The Truth

  1. I don’t think you have hatred in your heart when you are saying the things you are saying, but I could imagine someone asserting the things you are asserting while having hatred in their heart–and I don’t mean that sarcastically.

  2. I also get frustrated with what, too many times, amount to teachers teaching things that don’t satisfactorily answer questions which the Scriptures force us into asking.

I don’t really know the roots of the Star of David, but I am not defending their usage of it.

  1. First, I would agree that there was a “remnant” of Israel that was faithful, and that the rest were rejected. Nothing from this point forward will be in disagreement with that.

  2. It is true that the people committed idolatry in the wilderness–in fact, the idolatry in the wilderness seemed to have been a continuation of the idolatry they had committed in Egypt [Ez 20].

  3. The Hebrew word being translated into English as “tabernacle” is the word “mishkan”, and it just means “dwelling place”–especially considering that the incident of Korah developed as a result of his having wanted to force his way into the priesthood (ie, i. he wanted to serve in the tabernacle of God, thus he did not have an idea of serving anywhere else; and ii. he wanted to do this without having been a Cohen–rebelling against God’s Law), there is nothing here (in the employment of the phrase “mishkan of Korah”) that forcefully demonstrates a link between the worship of “Kiyyun” (which did take place) and “Korah’s habitation” (though I wouldn’t be surprised if he had been an idolater, the types of idolatry had to have been numerous–we have no proof Amos intended to catalogue their every idol, but we do know that if his intention was to condemn their unfaithfulness he hit his target–there is no solid connection here).

This author says the use of the term “true” (with respect to the “tabernacle”) referred to in Hebrews 8 validates the “true tabernacle vs false tabernacle” theory he previously asserted; the problem is that the dichotomy spoken of here is the heavenly tabernacle, which had served as a pattern for the earthly tabernacle, which you’ve already said was the “true” tabernacle:

There are probably a lot more problems with the article, but I do agree that there are those Jews who are faithful to their God (they end up believing in Jesus), and those who were rejected for rejecting the word of God [Deuteronomy 32:5]–Jesus.


That study was the best one I’ve come across for the topic we were discussing…I figured it gets the point across… You have an eye for minute detail … thank you for pointing that out…you have inspired me to pay closer attention to context of scripture use in future studies!! :+1::grin:


Your love for God and godly kindness inspires (and sometimes even corrects) me. :slight_smile:


Awwwwwwwww!! That makes me happy!! :+1::grin::revolving_hearts:


Typhus, Not Poison Gas

If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well.

As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war’s end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany’s food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.


Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that “The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany.” Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows: [5]

Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them …

Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced.

Dr. Gordon’s findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that “Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren’t deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases.”


Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day.

Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.

No ‘Human Skin’ Lampshades

What of the ghoulish stories of concentration camp inmates skinned for their tattoos, flayed to make lampshades and handbags, or other artifacts? What of the innumerable “torture racks,” “meathooks,” whipping posts, gallows, and other tools of torment and death that are reported to have abounded at every German camp? These allegations, and even more grotesque ones proffered by Soviet prosecutors, found their way into the record at Nuremberg.

The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the “Bitch of Buchenwald,” who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates.

But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the US zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington: “There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin.” [7] In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: “Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial.” [8] Ilse Koch hanged herself in a German jail in 1967.

It would be tedious to itemize and refute the thousands of bizarre claims as to Nazi atrocities. That there were instances of German cruelty, however, is clear from the testimony of Dr. Konrad Morgen, a legal investigator attached to the Reich Criminal Police, whose statements on the witness stand at Nuremberg have never been challenged by proponents of the Jewish Holocaust story. Dr. Morgen informed the court that he had been given full authority by Heinrich Himmler, commander of Hitler’s SS and the dread Gestapo, to enter any German concentration camp and investigate instances of cruelty and corruption on the part of camp personnel.

As he explained in sworn testimony at Nuremberg, Dr. Morgen investigated 800 such cases, resulting in more than 200 convictions. [9] Punishments included the death penalty for the worst offenders, including Hermann Florstedt, commandant of Lublin (Majdanek), and Karl Koch (Ilse’s husband), commandant of Buchenwald.

While German camp commandants in certain cases did inflict physical punishment, such acts had to be approved by authorities in Berlin, and it was required that a camp physician first certify the good health of the prisoner to be disciplined, and then be on hand at the actual beating. [10] After all, throughout most of the war the camps were important centers of industrial activity. The good health and morale of the prisoners was critical to the German war effort, as is evidenced in a January 1943 order issued by SS General Richard Glücks, chief of the office that supervised the concentration camps. It held the camp commanders “personally responsible for exhausting every possibility to preserve the physical strength of the detainees.” [11]

‘Gas Chambers’

In December 1944 US Army officers Colonel Paul Kirk and Lt. Colonel Edward J. Gully inspected the German concentration camp at Struthof-Natzweiler in Alsace. They submitted their findings to their superiors, who subsequently forwarded their report to the US War Crimes Division. While, significantly, the full text of their report has never been published, it has been revealed, by a historian supportive of Holocaust claims, that the two investigators were careful to characterize equipment exhibited to them by French informants as a " so-called lethal gas chamber," and to claim it was " allegedly used as a lethal gas chamber." [15] (Emphasis added)

Both the careful phraseology of the Natzweiler report, and its effective suppression, stand in stark contrast to the credulity, the confusion, and the blaring publicity that accompanied official reports of alleged gas chambers at Dachau. At first, a US Army photo depicting a GI gazing at a steel door marked with a skull and crossbones and the German words for: “Caution! Gas! Mortal danger! Don’t open!,” was identified as showing the murder weapon. [16]

Later, however, it was evidently decided that the apparatus in question was merely a standard delousing chamber for clothing, and another alleged gas chamber, this one cunningly disguised as a shower room, was exhibited to American congressmen and journalists as the site where thousands breathed their last. While there exist numerous reports in the press as to the operation of this second “gas chamber,” no official report by trained Army investigators has yet surfaced to reconcile such problems as the function of the shower heads: Were they “dummies,” or did lethal cyanide gas stream through them? (Each theory has appreciable support in journalistic and historiographical literature.)

As with Dachau, so with Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, and the other camps liberated by the Allies in western Germany. There was no end of propaganda about “gas chambers,” “gas ovens,” and the like, but so far not a single detailed description of the murder weapon and its function, not a single report of the kind that is mandatory for the successful prosecution of any assault or murder case in America at that time and today, has come to light.

Furthermore, a number of Holocaust authorities have now publicly decreed that there were no gassings, no extermination camps in Germany after all. (We are now told that “gassing” and “extermination” camps were located exclusively in what is now Poland, in areas captured by the Soviet Red Army and made off-limits to western investigators.)

Dr. Martin Broszat of the Munich-based Institute for Contemporary History, which is funded by the German government, stated categorically in a 1960 letter to the German weekly Die Zeit: “Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed.” [17] Professional “Nazi hunter” Simon Wiesenthal stated in 1975 and again in 1993 that “there were no extermination camps on German soil.” [18]

Dachau “gas chamber” No. 2, which was once presented to a stunned and grieving world as a weapon that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, is now described in the brochure issued to tourists at the modern Dachau “memorial site” in these words: “This gas chamber, camouflaged as a shower room, was not used.” [19]

The Propaganda Intensifies

More than 50 years after American troops entered Dachau, Buchenwald and other German camps, and trained American investigators established the facts as to what had gone on in them, the government in Washington, the entertainment media in Hollywood, and the print media in New York continue to churn out millions of words and images annually on the horrors of the camps and the infamy of the Holocaust. Despite the fact that, with the exception of the defeated Confederacy, no enemy of America has ever so suffered so complete and devastating defeat as did Germany in 1945, the mass media and the politicians and bureaucrats behave as if Hitler, his troops, and his concentration camps continue to exist in an eternal present, and our opinion makers continue to distort, through ignorance or malice, the facts about the camps.

Time for the Truth

It is time that the government and the professional historians reveal the facts about Dachau, Buchenwald and the other camps. It is time they let the American public know how the inmates died, and how they didn’t die. It is time that the claims of mass murder by gassing are clarified and investigated in the same manner as any other claims of murder. It is time that the free ride certain groups have enjoyed as the result of unchallenged Holocaust claims be terminated, just as it is time to end the scapegoating of other groups, including Germans, eastern Europeans, the Roman Catholic hierarchy, and the wartime leadership of America and Britain, either for their alleged role in the Holocaust or their supposed failure to stop it.

Above all, it is time that the citizens of this great Republic have the facts about the camps, facts they have a right to know, a right that is fundamental to the exercise of their authority and their will in the governance of their country. As citizens and as taxpayers, Americans of all ethnic backgrounds, of all faiths, have a basic right and an overriding interest in determining the facts of incidents that are deemed by those in positions of power to be significant in determining America’s foreign and educational policy, as well as its selection of past events to be memorialized in our civic life.

Today the alleged facts of the Holocaust are at issue all over the civilized world. The truth will be decided only by recourse to the facts, in the public forum: not by concealing the facts, denying the truth, stonewalling reality. The truth will out, and it is time the government of this country, and governments and international bodies throughout the world, make public the evidence of what actually transpired in the German concentration camps in the years 1933-1945, so that we may put paid to the lies, without fear or favor, and carry out the work of reconciliation and renewal that is and must be the granite foundation of mutual tolerance between peoples and of a peace based on justice.


The conclusions of the early US Army investigations as to the truth about the wartime German concentration camps have since been corroborated by all subsequent investigators and can be summarized:

  1. The harrowing scenes of dead and dying inmates were not the result of a German policy of “extermination,” but rather the result of epidemics of typhus and other disease brought about largely by the effects of Allied aerial attacks.
  2. Stories of Nazi supercriminals and sadists who turned Jews and others into handbags and lampshades for their private profit or amusement were sick lies or diseased fantasies; indeed, the German authorities punished corruption and cruelty on the part of camp commanders and guards.
  3. On the other hand, portrayals of the newly liberated inmates as saints and martyrs of Hitlerism were quite often very far from the truth; indeed, most of the brutalities inflicted on camp detainees were the work of their fellow prisoners, in contravention of German policy and German orders.
  4. The alleged homicidal showers and gas chambers were used either for bathing camp inmates or delousing their clothes; the claim that they were used to murder Jews or other human beings is a contemptible fabrication. Orthodox historians and professional “Nazi-hunters” have quietly dropped claims that inmates were gassed at Dachau, Buchenwald and other camps in Germany. They continue, however, to keep silent regarding the lies about Dachau and Buchenwald, as well as to evade an open discussion of the evidence for homicidal gassing at Auschwitz and the other camps captured by the Soviets.


I would second this having seen an apparition of Jesus in 2007. This is what the man’s facial features looked like, only whitish like this.



Apparitions look white. Even if it was a black man, the apparition would still appear white. Like a cloud/vapor.


Dear @MamaPotato , I’m glad the psycho-zionists STOLE palestina from the donkey egyptian palestinians after WorldWarII, because otherwise all the [Historical] sites would be demolished/defaced and replaced with donkey-idiot Mosques. So Thank God for Bibi and psycho-terrorists MenachimBegin.

The Lord our God does have a plan for the national salvation of Israel, but he also first has a plan for the New Israel, i.e. the body of Christ, i.e. every new creature who follows behind in the Blood of the Blessed Lamb. (Pre-Tribulation versus Post-Tribulation).


Then you call God a liar when He said of the Jews

Genesis 32:12 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

This isnt just speaking of future Christians this is primarily of the JEWS

Isaiah 14:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

God will bring the Jews back to their own land

Romans 1:16
| View whole chapter | See verse in context

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 2:10 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 9:27 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11:26 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This Ashkenazi Jewish thing this is a load of Satanic bs. Read the bible not the word of lying men


No it was always the Jw first and then the Gentile. WE are not Israel


WRONG. The 144000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel and they are not of all colors. YHWH will destroy the unrepentant only but His primary goal is to save lost souls not destroy them. God is a righteous judge not a murderer


All believers in Jesus Christ, Jewish or Gentile are the elect. The 144000 are the elect firstfruits of the remnant of Israel. And not part of the church as the church will have been Raptured and these are peoople who come to the truth only during the 7 year Tribulation


Can you read? I said New Israel, and i distinguished it from the NationState of Israel.
God will redeem Nation_Of_Israel out of Tribulation (in fullness of 144,000) like Revelation 7 says. But do you see how (((they))) are not alone before the throne of the Lamb?

Rev. 7.9: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

So observe: the remnant of Israel is numbered at 144,000, whereas the multitude of (Gentiles/Samaratians/Romans/Arabs!) is a great multitude, which no man could number!

The question of Christ Jesus and Jews versus Gentiles in the eyes of God is precisely the topic of Paul’s Epistle to the Galatians. (C.f. Hebrews 5, the Natural Branch versus the Grafted Branch). The Lord God is no respecter of persons. Consider the words of John the Baptist in Matthew 3.9:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

So what does “to the Jew first, then to the Gentiles” mean to you? I would say it is not RANK, but refers to TIME. And of course you remember God’s covenant with Abraham where he said: “I will make thee a father of the Israeli nation??” HA!, no of course not: he is father of MANY nations.

Moreover, when you read Revelation fully you see: the Church (i.e. the Body of Christ) does not suffer the Tribulation. The Church is gone(!) when the Tribulation begins, yet the Nation of Israel will remain. And they which were not defiled of women (i.e. the 144,000 virgins!) will be lifted up, and they are the remnant of Israel (the Nation) which God shall preserve and carry into the New Creation. … So in Revelation we have example of “the Gentiles first, and the Jews second!”.

Next point:
Do you consider Matthew 10.5-7 and Acts 25.25-28 a contradiction? (God forbid).

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(Acts 28)… 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Search the Scriptures for in them you will find eternal life!


There is no NEW ISRAEL there is only one IsraelAnd To the Jew first and to the Gentile is meant to be seen as is. The JEW first, as Jesus came first only to the Jews (as there is something to be said for getting your own house in order before you start inviting guests) and then the Gentiles which came after. The same goes for the Rapture and the judgment. Judgment, rewards for the Jew first and then the Gentile

And clearly here it is you who doesnt know how to read because I have already stated that the Church is gone during the Trib. Yet yes, the nation of Israel will remain, protected in the desert (Rev12, most likely in Petra)

The remnant Israel is NOT numbered at 144000 they as I said are the FIRSTFRUITS of the remnant Israel. The rest of the remaining Jews will follow

NO I do not consider Matthew 10:5-7 and Acts 25:25-28 a contradiction. And dont dare tell me to search the Scriptures as I have been doing that and far more deeply than most people for over 20 years now. Challenge me and I could put you under a table


Proverbs 15:2
The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouths of fools pour out folly.

Proverbs 14:29
Whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly.

Titus 3:9 King James Version (KJV)

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

King James Version (KJV)

2 Timothy 3:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

King James Version (KJV)